N64p kit discussion (Split)
- Thread starter βeta
- Start date
- Status
Nah, I know there have been problems building for at least a year and a half now, I'm just trying to enforce a stable public image.
A very surface level understanding is all that should show in a very surface level forum.
As far as I'm concerned, even the thread about beta was in poor taste.
A very surface level understanding is all that should show in a very surface level forum.
As far as I'm concerned, even the thread about beta was in poor taste.
ShockSlayer
Probably SS
I think I should clarify something. Even if Palmer and I didn't have any problems between each other or cause problems for each other, there are still reasons as to why I'm more suited to own and pay for ModRetro, and I'll post those.
Look, Palmer has paid for ModRetro, and many times he's Segaed at me about it("We are still losing money; I am still paying out of my own pocket; etc.") He definitely offered me the opportunity to pay for it myself. However, when that opportunity finally came, he was not willing to give it up. Palmer told me, "I said to tell me when you were able to support it, not that I was going to give it to you." What am I supposed to take away from that? He was just curious? Even after specific arguments about it in the SUPERCAVE?
Anyways, I asked him why "aside from the fact that we are fighting" and this is what I got:
ShockSlayer: I want to ask you
ShockSlayer: if we were not fighting right now
ShockSlayer: what would your reason be for not handing [the reigns] over
palmertech [KRZ]: 1) Because the status quo seems to be working fine, for the most part
palmertech [KRZ]: 2) Because as a journalism/computer science dual major, having this site under my belt is a good thing
palmertech [KRZ]: 3) Because I really do believe I am one of the best people to be at the top
palmertech [KRZ]: I am not a controlling leader by any means, and I think I am usually levelheaded
palmertech [KRZ]: And despite my vicious tendencies
palmertech [KRZ]: I would never do something that I believe is truly hurting our scene
palmertech [KRZ]: Which is why I told you to make a poll last time
palmertech [KRZ]: If people want you as a leader, then my judgment is wrong, and I can accept that
If you think that I am more qualified to be "leader/head admin/king/ruler or whatever the position is," please post saying so. Both Palmer and I had previously agreed on a poll, but it was never posted. It was going to go through the Saloon first, but that did not happen.
I have a better plan than the way our financial are currently set up:
My Plan:
Currently, jleemero has control of our adsense and the modretro paypal account. I've sent him several PMs asking about them, he has been online several times, I've gotten nothing back. Palmer says he has access to the ModRetro paypal, there is $20 in it he says, after checking it earlier. The last time he said he checked was Dec. That's...comforting. But whatever.
For one, after the initial discussion with Palmer I started gearing up for taking on the responsibility of providing for modretro monetarily. I currently have $300 in my bank specifically for this, and a $100 adsense check coming at the beginning of March.
Jelly did find us a hosting alternative, $37.95 / month for a nice server in panama. Not bad.
ModRetro has adsense, last I heard of it was roughly $20 a month.
I have the closest thing to an "official" modretro youtube channel. 4000 subs, not bad, could be better, whatever.
For comparison, mine was $29.99 last month. I can usually get around there or higher.
Now, tie those two together, you get roughly $50 a month, and adsense caps and then sends a check at $100.
So, that's a nice $100 every two months, and that's great, because it keeps hosting covered regardless. IIRC that's the website and chat. Yay chat!
Now, we have options, we are not limited to just the basic hosting. We can upgrade and get some nice additions. Of course, naturally, I also want to do donation drives. If everyone pitched in a little, we would be able to afford some other nice things eventually, a TF2 server, minecraft, etc. Who knows? We could do some contests with some really nice prizes.
Heck, I would like to figure out some sort of store, but then again, I have tons of other ambitions and things I want to do to make modretro better. Maybe a usable wiki this time, reference sections, etc. Get ModRetro going again, you know?
Of course, I would keep ModRetro's finances a thing of public record. That was, you can see that your donation is being used wisely instead of whatever you were told was last time.
Why haven't I done all this? Well, ya know, it would be for this guy's site. I'm all for helping the modders here, that's why I still post guides and answer PM's and post a ton. I could do that somewhere else, or not at all, really.
I've always wanted to improve MR and do stuff, but practically since the beginning Palmer has been hanging this "I pay for the site" anvil over my head.
-------
In case it wasn't apparent, nothing has changed for me since my first post, I will walk if I have to.
SS
Look, Palmer has paid for ModRetro, and many times he's Segaed at me about it("We are still losing money; I am still paying out of my own pocket; etc.") He definitely offered me the opportunity to pay for it myself. However, when that opportunity finally came, he was not willing to give it up. Palmer told me, "I said to tell me when you were able to support it, not that I was going to give it to you." What am I supposed to take away from that? He was just curious? Even after specific arguments about it in the SUPERCAVE?
Anyways, I asked him why "aside from the fact that we are fighting" and this is what I got:
ShockSlayer: I want to ask you
ShockSlayer: if we were not fighting right now
ShockSlayer: what would your reason be for not handing [the reigns] over
palmertech [KRZ]: 1) Because the status quo seems to be working fine, for the most part
palmertech [KRZ]: 2) Because as a journalism/computer science dual major, having this site under my belt is a good thing
palmertech [KRZ]: 3) Because I really do believe I am one of the best people to be at the top
palmertech [KRZ]: I am not a controlling leader by any means, and I think I am usually levelheaded
palmertech [KRZ]: And despite my vicious tendencies
palmertech [KRZ]: I would never do something that I believe is truly hurting our scene
palmertech [KRZ]: Which is why I told you to make a poll last time
palmertech [KRZ]: If people want you as a leader, then my judgment is wrong, and I can accept that
If you think that I am more qualified to be "leader/head admin/king/ruler or whatever the position is," please post saying so. Both Palmer and I had previously agreed on a poll, but it was never posted. It was going to go through the Saloon first, but that did not happen.
I have a better plan than the way our financial are currently set up:
My Plan:
Currently, jleemero has control of our adsense and the modretro paypal account. I've sent him several PMs asking about them, he has been online several times, I've gotten nothing back. Palmer says he has access to the ModRetro paypal, there is $20 in it he says, after checking it earlier. The last time he said he checked was Dec. That's...comforting. But whatever.
For one, after the initial discussion with Palmer I started gearing up for taking on the responsibility of providing for modretro monetarily. I currently have $300 in my bank specifically for this, and a $100 adsense check coming at the beginning of March.
Jelly did find us a hosting alternative, $37.95 / month for a nice server in panama. Not bad.
ModRetro has adsense, last I heard of it was roughly $20 a month.
I have the closest thing to an "official" modretro youtube channel. 4000 subs, not bad, could be better, whatever.
For comparison, mine was $29.99 last month. I can usually get around there or higher.
Now, tie those two together, you get roughly $50 a month, and adsense caps and then sends a check at $100.
So, that's a nice $100 every two months, and that's great, because it keeps hosting covered regardless. IIRC that's the website and chat. Yay chat!
Now, we have options, we are not limited to just the basic hosting. We can upgrade and get some nice additions. Of course, naturally, I also want to do donation drives. If everyone pitched in a little, we would be able to afford some other nice things eventually, a TF2 server, minecraft, etc. Who knows? We could do some contests with some really nice prizes.
Heck, I would like to figure out some sort of store, but then again, I have tons of other ambitions and things I want to do to make modretro better. Maybe a usable wiki this time, reference sections, etc. Get ModRetro going again, you know?
Of course, I would keep ModRetro's finances a thing of public record. That was, you can see that your donation is being used wisely instead of whatever you were told was last time.
Why haven't I done all this? Well, ya know, it would be for this guy's site. I'm all for helping the modders here, that's why I still post guides and answer PM's and post a ton. I could do that somewhere else, or not at all, really.
I've always wanted to improve MR and do stuff, but practically since the beginning Palmer has been hanging this "I pay for the site" anvil over my head.
-------
In case it wasn't apparent, nothing has changed for me since my first post, I will walk if I have to.
SS
Thursty
SS's Preferred Refreshment
Look guys, it's up to us, the members, to help this matter along. When it comes right down it, both parties are good people; but which one is better suited for this?
Palmer, you already have so much going for you. I honestly doubt that when you hand your resume to someone in the future, a website named modretro will make much of a good impression. It's honestly kind of selfish to say something like that. SS on the other hand is willing to poor his entire financial capital into making modretro a better place, not because he wants it to profit him in the future, but because he wants to make the site better as a whole for us, the community. He just needs the reigns from you. Sure, it's going to be hard, and some people will get their feelings hurt, but it will help the community so much more as a whole.
Let's be honest here Palmer; if modretro completely disappeared, that would be bad, right?
It's not like you'll be losing modretro, you'll be leaving it int he capable hands of a good friend of yours. Don't forget what brings us together.
It's time that you grew up, and realized that your life is more important right now than a website. You have nothing to lose.
Palmer, you already have so much going for you. I honestly doubt that when you hand your resume to someone in the future, a website named modretro will make much of a good impression. It's honestly kind of selfish to say something like that. SS on the other hand is willing to poor his entire financial capital into making modretro a better place, not because he wants it to profit him in the future, but because he wants to make the site better as a whole for us, the community. He just needs the reigns from you. Sure, it's going to be hard, and some people will get their feelings hurt, but it will help the community so much more as a whole.
Let's be honest here Palmer; if modretro completely disappeared, that would be bad, right?
It's not like you'll be losing modretro, you'll be leaving it int he capable hands of a good friend of yours. Don't forget what brings us together.
It's time that you grew up, and realized that your life is more important right now than a website. You have nothing to lose.
Honestly, with how this thread has played out, I don't really feel like either of you would make a better owner than the other.
So far, of the admins, Zero has shown the most maturity in this thread; and I'm under the impression that he wouldn't like to take over as owner.
Furthermore a change in ownership should not be decided by the populus during turbulent times, but rather it should be calmly worked out between the involved parties, and then the reasons for the change given in an official announcement. This is just ridiculous, and I refuse to cast a vote for either of you.
If there is a poll, it should be "Are you comfortable with a transfer in ownership of Modretro to THE GODDAMNED SHOCKSLAYER?", not "Who would be a better owner?"
Have some maturity and professionalism about this subject, please.
Transfering ownership to SS would cause him to percieve more open doors, yes; but in reality, I'm pretty sure SS and Palmer have approximately equal powers over the site.
So far, of the admins, Zero has shown the most maturity in this thread; and I'm under the impression that he wouldn't like to take over as owner.
Furthermore a change in ownership should not be decided by the populus during turbulent times, but rather it should be calmly worked out between the involved parties, and then the reasons for the change given in an official announcement. This is just ridiculous, and I refuse to cast a vote for either of you.
If there is a poll, it should be "Are you comfortable with a transfer in ownership of Modretro to THE GODDAMNED SHOCKSLAYER?", not "Who would be a better owner?"
Have some maturity and professionalism about this subject, please.
Transfering ownership to SS would cause him to percieve more open doors, yes; but in reality, I'm pretty sure SS and Palmer have approximately equal powers over the site.
Tchay
Frequent Poster
I agree
By itself, sure. But with 3 other reasons? Not so much.
Anyone that "needs" the reigns should not be in power on this site.
Ironically enough, Palmer seems to be the one person who's feelings have not gotten hurt. Once again (and no its not really ironic at all) Palmer is coming across as the most levelheaded person in this situation.
What on earth makes you think Palmer hasn't grown up??? He has already said that if the majority of the site wants SS to lead, then he will accept that. I get that you and SS are pals, but quit acting like palmer needs your persuasion to step down from what you imply is his strong emotional attachment.
ShockSlayer said:
I don't Sega about losing money on ModRetro, SS. I never use that fact as some sort of "anvil" except when you have tried to claim that you deserve some sort of cut of the small amount of money we make. Obviously, if the site is losing money overall, nobody should get any sort of payout, because it all comes out of my pocket. Acting like I won't let you improve the site is such a joke, look at Zero, for example: He wanted to set up official MR email accounts and a portal on the main URL, so he did. I am not standing in the way of anything!
And I told you to let me know when you could pay for it so that we could discuss working something out, like joint ownership, or perhaps setting up MR like an LLC like Jelly wanted. You took that tidbit, and started going around telling people that I was planning on handing MR to you. There is no problem with approaching me for a discussion about how we could work something out, going behind my back and exaggerating what I said is not the right way to do things.
As far as that chatlog (Which I asked you to not quote, by the way, considering I only had a few minutes to talk before getting to my next class), you are leaving out all of the other context. You were asking me "What do YOU have to lose?", and to be honest, you are right, I do not have much to lose. This is not about me, though, it is about what is best for MR, and at the moment, I think that the current setup works well.
The question should be "What does MR have to gain, and what does it have to lose?" I am not being selfish here, I really do want what is best for MR. Saying I need to just "grow up" and hand over the site to SS without any regard for the opinions of the members here makes no sense.
I don't know how much more fair I can be, I told you to feel free to make a poll. It is not a matter of "did not happen", it is a matter of "You did not do it". That is not my fault in any way. And honestly, your claims of wanting to be in charge of MR just so you can improve it ring a bit hollow when just a few posts ago, you were saying that you can't stand working with me, and might just walk away. Come on, I am not that bad.
Triton
Member
as a person who is all too familiar with votes of (no)confidence and ultimatums, I can honestly say that this type of thread is not going to do anybody any good. I've know and interacted with both Palmer and SS for many years, as both allies and opponents, through most of the biggest sh*tstorms in our collective communities history. While Palmer might not be the most ambitious admin, he seems for the most part to be attentive to the needs of his community and usually (with a few notable exceptions) keeps a level head. ShockSlayer has all the ambition and will to take modretro and make the most out of it but seems to be lacking in some of the qualities that make a truly good leader, but he makes up for that lack with a wellspring of knowledge and information that is at the heart of the community.
From my perspective I think the best thing would be as palmer said, some type of joint ownership with full transparency in terms of the financial assets of the forum/site. Try to enact some of these grand ideas that palmer has, while keeping joint control so that balance is maintained for the good of the community. Anybody familiar with american politics knows the dangers of either too much ambition, or being too inflexible when it comes to change.
i'd write more but ADD is kickin' in yo.
ShockSlayer
Probably SS
Had tons written, didn't post.
Talked to palmer.
Tired.
Talked to palmer.
Tired.
Alright guys, I know I'm not all that active around here these days, but I still check in several times a day, and I do have a strong attachment to the community and members here. Some of the brightest and most interesting people I've known frequent this board, and provides inspiration for me every time I check in.
I value this because a large amount of the people I interact with on a daily basis can barely process simple math. Which is fine, comes with the territory, but it's a sort of escape for me to come here and take part and observe creativity in the wild, as it were.
For me, the greatest part of MR is the diversity of interests. We have aspiring leaders, real-life leaders, actors, entertainers, regular joes, young guys and girls who don't know what they want to do yet, who all come together to share their creative ideas in whatever it is they do. Painting gameboys, portabilizing N64s, making lasers, trimming down motherboards to OMGWTF dimensions, whatever, each person brings their own flair to it.
It doesn't get any better than that.
But let me throw my two cents in here, from a management perspective. A leadership position is one of constant learning and adjustment. This site, so far as I can discern, has the following leadership structure:
Palmer - Site owner/operator
SS - Assistant site owner/operator
Lesser admins
Lowly moderators
From a management point of view, Palmer is supposed to be the guy that sits back and lets the team control the operation, supervises the higher admins, following up when needed, and taking care of the financial/operational side of things. In dealing with forum members - which should generally be rare - as a rule, should be consistently welcoming and positive.
SS should theoretically care of "in-the-weeds" details, i.e. staff management, forum maintenance, publicity, etc. As Palmer's counterpart, in dealing with site members should be, again, consistently welcoming and positive, and using constructive criticism when appropriate. When dealing with staff, issues that arise need to be dealt with with the expectation of resolving and fixing said issue, not making it worse by furthering the issue or, worse, ignoring it.
Lesser admins take care of details such as spam bot control, supervising and training the mods, and handling larger forum-related problems that pop up, such as threads that get out of control, etc. The same rule applies for dealing with forum members as with upper management.
The lowly mods moderate posts, kill the spam bots, deal with stickies, help new members with integration, etc. They are the guys that really get into the weeds with forum members, and as staff, should always be respectful and positive. When offering criticism or advice, it should be done constructively and positively.
Obviously, that's not exactly how we operate, but it should be.
I fully oppose any kind of leadership change at this time, mainly due to the fact that I feel it's completely unnecessary, and not based on who I think should (or shouldn't) run the site. However, I challenge you all to look this over and decide for yourself who should lead and who shouldn't, based on the basic expectations of leadership.
I value this because a large amount of the people I interact with on a daily basis can barely process simple math. Which is fine, comes with the territory, but it's a sort of escape for me to come here and take part and observe creativity in the wild, as it were.
For me, the greatest part of MR is the diversity of interests. We have aspiring leaders, real-life leaders, actors, entertainers, regular joes, young guys and girls who don't know what they want to do yet, who all come together to share their creative ideas in whatever it is they do. Painting gameboys, portabilizing N64s, making lasers, trimming down motherboards to OMGWTF dimensions, whatever, each person brings their own flair to it.
It doesn't get any better than that.
But let me throw my two cents in here, from a management perspective. A leadership position is one of constant learning and adjustment. This site, so far as I can discern, has the following leadership structure:
Palmer - Site owner/operator
SS - Assistant site owner/operator
Lesser admins
Lowly moderators
From a management point of view, Palmer is supposed to be the guy that sits back and lets the team control the operation, supervises the higher admins, following up when needed, and taking care of the financial/operational side of things. In dealing with forum members - which should generally be rare - as a rule, should be consistently welcoming and positive.
SS should theoretically care of "in-the-weeds" details, i.e. staff management, forum maintenance, publicity, etc. As Palmer's counterpart, in dealing with site members should be, again, consistently welcoming and positive, and using constructive criticism when appropriate. When dealing with staff, issues that arise need to be dealt with with the expectation of resolving and fixing said issue, not making it worse by furthering the issue or, worse, ignoring it.
Lesser admins take care of details such as spam bot control, supervising and training the mods, and handling larger forum-related problems that pop up, such as threads that get out of control, etc. The same rule applies for dealing with forum members as with upper management.
The lowly mods moderate posts, kill the spam bots, deal with stickies, help new members with integration, etc. They are the guys that really get into the weeds with forum members, and as staff, should always be respectful and positive. When offering criticism or advice, it should be done constructively and positively.
Obviously, that's not exactly how we operate, but it should be.
I fully oppose any kind of leadership change at this time, mainly due to the fact that I feel it's completely unnecessary, and not based on who I think should (or shouldn't) run the site. However, I challenge you all to look this over and decide for yourself who should lead and who shouldn't, based on the basic expectations of leadership.
- Status
