Poll on portable N64????

[hailrazer]

So basically you came here to see what we had to say but then totally ignore everything we have to say.

Okay .

 

[ttsgeb]

So basically you came here to see what we had to say but then totally ignore everything we have to say.

Okay .

I tried to pretend I didn't notice this. He basically just did something I would do. :/

 

[Seren]

So basically you came here to see what we had to say but then totally ignore everything we have to say.

Okay .

He asked for your opinions, considered them and then decided against them.

 

[ShockSlayer]

So this thread is pointless and I can lock it?

 

[hailrazer]

So basically you came here to see what we had to say but then totally ignore everything we have to say.

Okay .

He asked for your opinions, considered them and then decided against them.

Nah not really.

All this was , a blatant advertisement thread. He never cared what we thought, he just was showing off his product to try to get interest. He had already decided the way it was going to be done and didn't really listen to our concerns, just brushed them off and justified what he was going to do all along.

Kind of like all the Chinese clone makers out there. And that's why they all fail.

But who cares, it's his product he can do what he wants.

 

[hailrazer]

I don't think anyones offended. We just offer in your face criticism and advice.

And IMO that is better than people lying to you .

 

[mesojdm]

everyone, everyone!! Calm down please. This is strictly a prototype and everything can be changed and reworked in the final 3d cad drawing before cutting the mold. I have learned a few things. start button relocation( which i most likely will do)

and the biggest concern, the screen size. I have 150 - 200 hours in these cases so not painting them and seeing what the public thinks and just throwing them away would be insane!

i'm sure the public will address many of the points you said here. and if enough of them agrees it's too wide i will definitely change it.
this will most likely push the project back a few months as I will have to completely redesign the unit and create new prototypes so i can test feel which is why that is the very last option.

also the biggest interest I was trying to gauge especially with modders was how I would market these.
i've learned I should probably increase the price $250
as well as offer the service myself $350



so thank you guys.. I guess. this has been a minefield of condescending snarks especially from one of the founders of this site which I still have trouble believing and I can't take it anymore.
I fail to comprehend how anyone can share ideas here without getting chewed up by a gang of elitists.
sorry to offend anyone(more confused than sorry actually)

 

[mesojdm]

So this thread is pointless and I can lock it?

Hailrazer I understand constructive criticism and completely appreciate every bit I can get, but remarks like you see above add nothing to the conversation and are simply done out of spite. Don't get me wrong I take nothing personally, i generally don't care, it is just sad to see pointless hate on here when I probably am not the only genuine modder who has endured through this.

 

[Zero]

If this was anyone else making a first project you all would compliment it and say good work, but for some reason everyone is acting like a jackass.

I understand that some of you are just trying to help him market it better, but there is seriously no reason to be an ass while doing it. Unlike most new people he actually seems to know stuff and already has a working prototype, but instead of welcoming him you're all turning him away. flax, I'm surprised he's handling it so well because if it was me in his position I would have just told you all to *Can'tSayThisOnTV* off by now.

 

[Triton]

If this was anyone else making a first project you all would compliment it and say good work, but for some reason everyone is acting like a jackass.

I understand that some of you are just trying to help him market it better, but there is seriously no reason to be an ass while doing it. Unlike most new people he actually seems to know stuff and already has a working prototype, but instead of welcoming him you're all turning him away. flax, I'm surprised he's handling it so well because if it was me in his position I would have just told you all to *PLAQUE* off by now.

If he had come here and said "hey guys this is the portable n64 i'm working on, please tell me what you think." thats one thing, but he came here talking about mass production, volume discount type quantities, knowing manufactures and suppliers and all of that jazz AND claimed to be able to sell it at a price point that sounded too good to be true. While its sad to say, some of us portable building oldtimers are more than a little jaded.

I've been building portables, and have been involved in this scene for 8 years. There have been Countless attempts to "mass produce" portables, or kits. ben made kits for a while, others have offered them and none have been a real commercial success because there just isnt demand for them and i cant tell you how many times i've seen people build portables and sell them just to break even, or even at a loss. Shockslayer can cop that attitude because he has built and sold more N64 portables than any other modder out there, so he kinda knows his flax.

as a hand built portable his N64 looks great, but as a future commercial product? all i can say is you better be going to a LOT of forums and asking for advice before you commit to anything. atariage and assemblergames would be good places to start. stoneagegamer is a regular on atariage IIRC, he's one of the people who sells the FC16GO and similar products

 

[T-Berg]

Dang! People get offended fast these days.
I agree with Hail, honesty beats lying.

 

[Zero]

If he had come here and said "hey guys this is the portable n64 i'm working on, please tell me what you think." thats one thing, but he came here talking about mass production, volume discount type quantities, knowing manufactures and suppliers and all of that jazz AND claimed to be able to sell it at a price point that sounded too good to be true. While its sad to say, some of us portable building oldtimers are more than a little jaded.

I've been building portables, and have been involved in this scene for 8 years. There have been Countless attempts to "mass produce" portables, or kits. ben made kits for a while, others have offered them and none have been a real commercial success because there just isnt demand for them and i cant tell you how many times i've seen people build portables and sell them just to break even, or even at a loss. Shockslayer can cop that attitude because he has built and sold more N64 portables than any other modder out there, so he kinda knows his flax.

as a hand built portable his N64 looks great, but as a future commercial product? all i can say is you better be going to a LOT of forums and asking for advice before you commit to anything. atariage and assemblergames would be good places to start. stoneagegamer is a regular on atariage IIRC, he's one of the people who sells the FC16GO and similar products

I understand completely, and I'm not disputing that all that isn't true, just that everyone could have said it without sounding like cunts.

Dang! People get offended fast these days.
I agree with Hail, honesty beats lying.

It's not offensive, and no one was saying it's better to lie. It's just flax like your first post in this thread that makes the community look like a bunch of assholes.

 

[Seren]

Thank you, and I am waiting until I complete the final coat to showcase the idea to a broader public eye. Just wanted to show the rough concept off to you guys in hopes of bouncing back some ideas.

But also Thank you for the legitimate responses instead of the usual condescending remarks. Its amazing to see usable feedback on something I have worked this hard to make.

So far I have seen two main concerns, the screen is too big making the portable too big and the flanks are ridiculous looking and feeling.

Thelukestir made a good point, and one that I figured out while building this portable. To have an uncut 64 board, the only real spot for the controller to sit is right against the top 64DD slot. So moving the controller in would make the case a lot thicker or awkward placed buttons.

Also the final dimensions on this portable are 10.5in X 6in and I don't think people realize that what I added in width I more than made up for in depth.

This portable at its VERY thickest point is a little less than 2 in. and slims down to about 1 in. so yes it's a bit wide but extremely thin. And for no trimming i would say that is an accomplishment in itself.

Triton I think the reason it may feel awkward to hold is due to the weight distribution (top and bottom) compared to the flanks, which I had to redesign a few times to get the perfect equilibrium. I have held my fair share of portables and can honestly say this is what a portable should feel like, extremely comfortable, form fitted to your hand. but I am just one guy so it could just be my preference really. I think the design really puts people off because it is not what we are used to seeing, and no one has been able to successfully pull of separated handles from the unit without compromising design imho. Also the flanks don't do the size justice as they make the portable look a lot bigger than it actually is.

Also the 7" screen is an amazing experience to play on. I know so many people are dogging on it but it does have it's benefits in engulfing you into the gameplay.

Thank you all who gave input. I am going to be painting the cases in the next few days and can post final pictures and work logs if anyone is interested. Thanks again

I think these are some pretty good justifications. If you any of you made a WIP thread, you'd show off your design and be open to any criticism, just like this guy. But if you got "i dont like this design because xxxxxxx reason", you wouldn't just say "well, he must know what he's talking about! thanks for the advice!". You'd think about if you wanted that in your portable or not, and then either agreed or disagreed with it. He's obviously considered your suggestions, and you guys should really respect his opinions, because he obviously has a fair amount of skill in this area, (if not more than most of us, he's obviously better than I am).

I also don't really understand why we'd be "jaded" about having a mass produced portable option. Unless you're making these just to make money. If that's the case you're in the wrong business. Also, go and complain about the already made chinese knockoff portable nes ans snes while you're at it.

It's kind of embarrassing that this thread is being threatened to be locked. If anything, all posts that aren't actually contributing to the thread should be deleted.

 

[Bush]

Hey there. I for one applaud this idea. I love the design and I'm at a loss as to why people are hating. Yes, it is large, but the point is to have it be affordable and easy to assemble. There is no reason to act like a bunch of autistic kids because you don't like the concept of mass production. I don't care that it's big; small portables are a pain in the ass to build and for all intensive purposes I will not be carrying a portable around at the mall. Take the butt plugs out of your asses and be constructive for once, people. I'm seeing people act in ways I have never seen them act, and I'm slightly appalled. Good luck with your project.

 

[Triton]

I also don't really understand why we'd be "jaded" about having a mass produced portable option. Unless you're making these just to make money. If that's the case you're in the wrong business. Also, go and complain about the already made Chinese knockoff portable nes ans snes while you're at it.

We're jaded because we've seen dozens of people over the years saying the same things as this guy with nothing to show for it because it never worked out, after a while you start taking optimism like his with a big grain of salt. If he can do something to back up what he says and MAKE us believe that what he wants to happen will actually happen I'd be thrilled, but right now what I see is a pretty decent looking portable N64 and a lot of empty promises and ideas.

I don't know the guy, or how credible any of his claims are. This is where i think a lot of people run into problems. If it was somebody like Ben or Marshall coming on here with a new product that's one thing, because they have a proven track record of making commercial grade stuff, and in quantity too. But somebody totally new to the entire scene? Sorry if I'm a little skeptical.

There is no reason to act like a bunch of autistic kids because you don't like the concept of mass production.

its not that we hate mass production, its just that if this DOES get mass produced, how many people are actually going to buy one? I'd hate to see this guy churn out 250 units or whatever and sell 25 of them, ya know?

 

[ShockSlayer]

If you think you are going to get ANYWHERE, you have to understand the market.
And let me tell you, you don't.

I'll tell you the EXACT formula for success to mass produce these things:

1. No controller flanks, the mass market doesn't grasp the concept of comfortability, they prefer stupid boxy flax like 3DS's.

2. It has to be tiny and battery operated. To them, fitting everything into an SL68p without a spacer and internal batteries is still HUGE to them. So you're going to have to break my record, which is not impossible either.

3. It has to have an everdrive64/64Drive. Because it exists now, it has to be implemented, because giant *Can'tSayThisOnTV*ing carts are a huge downside.

4. It has to have EVERYTHING. 4 controller ports, full AV out, AC adapter, Dpad and L, expansion pack, controller pack port. Full compatibility is a must for them.

5. It has to be stupid proof in every aspect. Screen covers, ability to be thrown across the room, protection circuits for every plug, nintendo screws, etc.

^And even with all that, you'll be lucky to sell 5.

You wanna know what's *Can'tSayThisOnTV*ing hilarious? Basement_modder and I were planning to do all that(except 3 because it didn't exist yet) over a year ago. We were going to mass produce a few, probably about 6-7, and sell the extra cases on ModRetro for anyone looking to build their own anyways. Christ, polycase offers CNC cases, and I think after we designed a really nice one in CAD, it would be about $100 for 10 cases. $10 a PERFECT FLAWLESS TINY CASE. You put 150+ hours into the case you've shown? Why? This is so much better.

Then, after I did the above, I made a video that broke down every aspect of the cost to produce a basic N64p, and just parts was more than your starting price.

If someone truly wants to DIY their own N64p, they've already come here.

SS

 

[Seren]

We're jaded because we've seen dozens of people over the years saying the same things as this guy with nothing to show for it because it never worked out

You're furious with his idea because you don't think it will work. wat.

I don't know the guy, or how credible any of his claims are. This is where i think a lot of people run into problems. If it was somebody like Ben or Marshall coming on here with a new product that's one thing, because they have a proven track record of making commercial grade stuff, and in quantity too. But somebody totally new to the entire scene? Sorry if I'm a little skeptical.

Just because he's making a claim that you're skeptical about, doesn't mean you have to mindlessly attack him about it.

I really don't understand why you guys think this wont sell, if it in fact gets to the marketing stage. How many people have come on this forum going "i want make portaball ninty 64 cuz i saw on youtube how i do dis?" They'll mindlessly flail their money at things if it means getting what they want.

Saying it needs to be smaller than the trisixtyfource is just ridiculous, as that's obviously not the goal of the product.

Requiring an everdrive / 64 drive is equally as silly, as most of them wont know what one is, and soldering one on to an n64 isnt really fitting in line with the DIY focus of the project. Also, the unit is mostly for novelty, and out the door goes the novelty when you're booting roms from inside the unit.

I agree that adding an av out is a really positive thing in terms of selling them, but 4 controller ports isn't exactly necessary.

Again about it not selling, I think you're forgetting about horrid console knockoffs, like superjoys and the atari clones. Sure they were a lot cheaper than this is planning to be, but Heck, you cant go to a goodwill without finding 5 superjoys.

 

[Triton]

You're furious with his idea because you don't think it will work. wat.

Jaded - (Adjective) 1. lacking enthusiasm, Made callous, or cynically insensitive by experience or age.

Just because he's making a claim that you're skeptical about, doesn't mean you have to mindlessly attack him about it.

What part of anything I've said was mindlessly attacking exactly?

How many people have come on this forum going "i want make portaball ninty 64 cuz i saw on youtube how i do dis?"

a dozen? two dozen? The whole point of making a commercial product is to profit from it. which is really hard to do with a low volume of sales and a high parts count/outlay. To turn a profit at the price point he wants to hit, with the volume of sales he is likely to get, doesnt seem all that feasible.I would be more than happy to be proven wrong I genuinely hope that he succeeds but from what I know, based on the info that I have, I just dont think its very likely.

 

[PalmerTech]

so thank you guys.. I guess. this has been a minefield of condescending snarks especially from one of the founders of this site which I still have trouble believing and I can't take it anymore.
I fail to comprehend how anyone can share ideas here without getting chewed up by a gang of elitists.
sorry to offend anyone(more confused than sorry actually)

As the founder of the site, I apologize for the snark. Like others have mentioned, though, this is an idea that has been thrown out there over and over again, from people with no skill at all (Brand new members) to many-year veterans with 15 portables under their belt (Mario and ShockSlayer). Nobody here is offended, they are just being frank about reality. I know it seems harsh to you, but imagine if you ran a custom car shop for years, and had a ton of employees all working to build custom hot rods for people. Every few weeks for the past several years, one of your employees decides to try and turn their latest design into a commercial mass produced vehicle, but despite the help of the whole shop, nobody ever manages to get anywhere, mainly because it is such a niche market. What is going to happen when some guy who nobody knows walks in and says "Hey guys! I have an idea: How about we make my custom car into a commercial one?!" It is unfair to the guy (Who does not know this history), but everyone is probably going to laugh at him, especially if his proposed design is something that the rest of the shop does not thing will sell. Come on though, guys, no need to be a dick to him.

Here is the other thing: Thus far, you have showed us two really nice looking work in progress N64p cases. That convinces us of your ability to probably make a nice N64p.

The rest of your claims, though? To you, it may seem obvious that they are true, but to us, there is no proof you are capable of pulling them off, especially when there is a lot what would seem to be contradictory information. Not calling you a liar here, just saying that there are things that stick out as odd:

1) How did you grow up with the N64, yet have"over a decade of experience in electronics, manufacturing, product development, and fabrication"? Growing up with the N64 would make you pretty young to be so accomplished, with all your contacts in Tokyo and Shenzen to boot.

2) You claim these are "full fiberglass prototypes(not original plastics glued together)", but your pictures sure seem to look like, well, original plastics glued together. In particular, the undersides of the wings, and the grille by the cart slot; I work with fiberglass a lot (Worked at a sailing center for years, repairing powerboats and sailboats), and that kind of work is very, very hard to pull off. Someone capable of that would probably have no trouble hiding the obvious blemishes in the case, and also know that those blemishes should be fixed BEFORE painting, not afterwards. The fact that your case appears to be made of the original plastics, screwholes and all, does not help.

3) For someone with so much experience in product development and fabrication, I don't know why you would choose to hand-make a model instead of a CNC'd CAD model. Heck, if you are going to do all this fiberglass work, why not at least CNC the buck?

4) Injection molding this case is going to be really, really tough. With that kind of size and depth, particularly with all those curves, you will need a lot of sprue work, and a pretty big block, too. I can't imagine the mold coming in at anything under $10,000 for even an aluminum mold, a proper steel mold will probably run closer to $30,000. Those are really, REALLY optimistic figures, and could easily run much higher than that, especially if you get any kind of mold revision. At that rate, even if you manage to sell 300 units, you still have to devote $100 per unit just to recouping the mold costs. Have you worked with injection molding before, and are you aware of these huge costs?

If you can actually pull this off, I would be glad to support you in any way I can. The hobby of portabalizing is in a bit of a downward trend, and IF this were to be successful, it would bring a lot of exposure and new members to the scene. A lot of newbs, sure, but they would mostly be contained to their own section in the N64 board. If you can show yourself capable of accomplishing this, then I am sure nobody will have anything but encouragement.

Look forward to hearing from you!

 

[Seren]

Love you palmer.

Also, I feel like an idiot for not knowing the correct definition of "jaded"...

zzzzzzzzz