swapping controllers

grossaffe

President Groosevelt
Staff member
So I just had an idea. Y'all know how Perfect Dark supports a two-controller mode that allows you to make it dual-analog? Well I was just thinking about a portable that integrated two N64 controllers (well, at least the joysticks from both, no need to double up all the buttons) into one portable. the problem is that the only two-controller layout on perfect dark that uses modern movement (one stick for move/strafe other for look/turn) uses the second controller for movement and the first for turning, which is the opposite from how we do it. Anyways, I was thinking that you could put in a switch to swap controller positions. So when the switch is on one side, controller the data pin from controller one goes the the data pin on the board for controller one. But when the switch is on the other side, data pin for controller one goes to the data pin on the board for controller two, and vice-versa.

anyways, after coming to such an epiphany, I realized I know little of switches aside from your basic on/off switch. so, what kind of switch would make this happen? I guess I'm looking for a switch that does this:
Switch.jpg


*In no way does this mean I am making a portable n64 with plans on implementing this; it is just an idea.


this would be awesome:
N64pDA.gif
 
Argelfraster said:
alpha64_001.jpg
???
Or am i thinking of something totally different?
If that thig is what I think it is, then no. that thing just allows you to switch which joystick you're using as the main joystick. completely different. I want to have controller 1 and controller two both integrated, but then have a switch so you can swap controller 1 and controller two. basically a Perfect Dark mode and then a regular gameplay mode.
 
found a review of that controller:
http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Fo ... 7062722/1/

Nyko Alpha Pro 64

A thank you: A big thank you to Floorcat for sending me this controller to review. This controller was never released in the UK and I never had any luck in tracking one down. Thank you my good friend, I hope I can return the favour (and this controller :lol: ) one day. :)

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Since the Nintendo 64’s introduction in 1996 analogue control has become a standard feature on games consoles. Dual analogue control has become the new standard and in that respect the Nintendo 64 controller can feel dated. So you can imagine that N64 enthusiasts could be very excited about the Nyko Alpha Pro 64… the Nintendo 64’s only controller that has two analogue sticks!

Let’s kill that excitement straight away; this controller can’t be used for dual analogue control. What we have instead is a controller that allows you to select which analogue stick you would like to use; left or right. This is a deceptive marketing ploy and as there’s no need to switch between sticks (and no reason or benefits from doing so) you’ll soon settle with using left control stick.

The right control stick can be used but it means that you need to lift your thumb from the stick to press A, B or any of the C buttons. This is a ridiculous setup that simply doesn’t work. Even if you use the D-pad instead of the C buttons (and not all games will allow you to do that) the A and B buttons are still only reachable with your right thumb and that means you need to release the control stick.

So, we’ve established that the twin control sticks are just a gimmick… what about the rest of the controller? The first thing you’ll notice when you pick up this controller is that it feels huge and bulky. It’s really too big for most people’s hands. I have quite large hands and I find it uncomfortable for my thumbs to reach the control sticks, so I imagine it would be even worse for a person with small hands.

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The button layout mirrors that of the official controller, although there are Z triggers under both the L and R shoulder buttons. The C buttons are slightly larger than those of the official controller, and as a result are more comfortable. Unfortunately, they’re the same size as the A and B buttons, and this makes differentiating between them difficult as they feel exactly the same. The D-pad is okay, it's not all that comfortable nor is it as precise as the official controller but it seems to work okay... ish. The L and R triggers are responsive and there's two Z triggers which can be used at any time. And there's Set (for turbo functions) and Slow (which just repeatedly presses the start button to imitate slow motion... although I don't know any game this is useful for).

But if this controller has one big problem it's this; both analogue sticks are terrible! Sure, they do have metal stalks which should mean long term reliability but they feel overly stiff and need twice as much force to be pushed in a diagonal direction. That makes it all too easy to misjudge how much pressure is needed to move in certain directions, ruining any game which needs careful aiming or precision movement. When you do push in diagonal direction you’ll notice that the tops of the sticks rotate making precise movements or adjustments even more difficult to pull off. The sticks also have flawed centering, and you’ll often find that releasing the control stick entirely doesn’t cancel a forward motion. Some examples of this include Goldeneye’s level select menu, where the crosshair will float to the top or bottom of the screen even if the stick is untouched, or Mario tiptoeing forward without any control stick input. The only way to stop this is by jerking the stick in the opposite direction… and this often results in the same problem but in a different direction.

Further aggravating the already flawed control is the size of the controller; you'll find that your hand feels stretched in order to use either of the sticks. And there are some questionably big gaps in the mouldings of this controller. All of these issues combine to make this controller uncomfortable for short periods of use and impossible to use for any real length of time.

Lets be straight about this; this is an awful controller. I believed that nothing ruins a controller more than having a crappy control stick but I was wrong… having two crappy control sticks is much worse! There’s no reason to own this controller; it’s gimmicky, uncomfortable and the control sticks are so bad that your gameplay will be seriously affected. Stay well away.

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Overall: 2/10 - A garbage controller which will badly affect your gameplay.



so... no, it's a piece of crap and not even close to doing what awesome thing I want it to.
 
Basement_Modder said:
Simple. Just swap data lines on the controllers with a DPDT switch like so:
Yeah, I knew swapping the data pins was what was needed, just wasn't sure if the kind of switch that can do that sort of thing. DPDT is what I needed to know. After reading up a little bit on exactly how they work, it looks like i'd need to bridge the contact between a couple poles so that it swaps them instead of just moving them both to something else, but yeah, DPDT switch seems to do the trick.

edit: just noticed you annotated the picture. Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. seems like a fairly simple mechanism. Now, I just need to learn to make a perfect portable, and case, and hack the controllers, and the batteries, and the... :sweat:

Well, at least the idea is now out there.
 
grossaffe said:
Basement_Modder said:
Simple. Just swap data lines on the controllers with a DPDT switch like so:
Yeah, I knew swapping the data pins was what was needed, just wasn't sure if the kind of switch that can do that sort of thing. DPDT is what I needed to know. After reading up a little bit on exactly how they work, it looks like i'd need to bridge the contact between a couple poles so that it swaps them instead of just moving them both to something else, but yeah, DPDT switch seems to do the trick.

edit: just noticed you annotated the picture. Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. seems like a fairly simple mechanism. Now, I just need to learn to make a perfect portable, and case, and hack the controllers, and the batteries, and the... :sweat:

Well, at least the idea is now out there.
They wire reverse-direction DC motors the same way. That's how I thought of it. :awesome:
 
Swapping the data lines would swap the buttons too, just so you know.

Does anybody know where I could get that dual-analog controller? It would be perfect for me, since I normally use the stick with my left but I use my right hand on the stick in shooters.
 
Basement_Modder said:
XCVG said:
Swapping the data lines would swap the buttons too, just so you know.
The whole point was for perfect dark, so that doesn't matter.
Indeed. I wouldn't even bother with the buttons for controller two, except for the z-button as that will be required for perfect dark. The action of every other button is redundant across the controllers in the Perfect Dark control scheme.
 
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