Buyers Policy Discussion

[PalmerTech]

Mega let me know he thinks it would be a good idea to post the logs. I am also unlocking this thread so people can chime in as they want. Everyone try to act like a mature adult and avoid name calling, m'kay?

(2013.06.07 - 23:22:46) CHATROOM: Tchay logs into the Chat.
(2013.06.07 - 23:22:58) Mister_Nickels: Evening, Tchay.
(2013.06.07 - 23:23:02) Tchay: evening
(2013.06.07 - 23:23:22) megalomaniac: did you figure out your fedex thing?
(2013.06.07 - 23:23:54) megalomaniac: those forms are a Sega
(2013.06.07 - 23:23:58) Tchay: well, I have the forms all filled out. But I got a bad feeling its gonna get stuck in customs
(2013.06.07 - 23:24:24) megalomaniac: you should have shipped USPS
(2013.06.07 - 23:248) Tchay: do you know the story on what happened to my first envision?
(2013.06.07 - 23:24:55) Mister_Nickels: Oh dear
(2013.06.07 - 23:24:58) Mister_Nickels: All too well
(2013.06.07 - 23:24:59) megalomaniac: besides the 22 boards???
(2013.06.07 - 23:25:20) megalomaniac: or was the first one 15?
(2013.06.07 - 23:25:41) megalomaniac: i cant remember....but thats a lot of determination to continue
(2013.06.07 - 23:27:06) megalomaniac: i have a feeling your gonna say you shipped it and it got lost in the mail
(2013.06.07 - 23:27:51) Tchay: That was for the first one
(2013.06.07 - 23:27:53) Tchay: but yes
(2013.06.07 - 23:27:59) Tchay: USPS lost the package going to greece
(2013.06.07 - 23:28:10) megalomaniac: hmmm
(2013.06.07 - 23:28:13) Tchay: And I had to spend the next 6 months fighting with USPS to prove the value of my package
(2013.06.07 - 23:28:25) megalomaniac: why bother?
(2013.06.07 - 23:280) Tchay: Ultimately, I got about 3/4 of the money refunded to me, and I had to eat the rest of the money
(2013.06.07 - 23:286) Tchay: Why bother?
(2013.06.07 - 23:287) megalomaniac: if the buyer didnt pay insurance its their problem
(2013.06.07 - 23:28:51) Tchay: lol um yes the package was insured
(2013.06.07 - 23:29:00) Tchay: and yes the buyer paid for shipping with insurance

(2013.06.07 - 233:21) Tchay: i mean you can read about it on the forums. it took 6 months to pull off
(2013.06.07 - 233:45) Tchay: yes there was a tracking number. but international doesnt offer tracking updates
(2013.06.07 - 234:12) megalomaniac: Heck i had a guy in brazil....40days and the package didnt arrive
(2013.06.07 - 2344) megalomaniac: gave him the customs ticket number, they found it right away
(2013.06.07 - 234:50) megalomaniac: overseas uses the customs number
(2013.06.07 - 235:02) megalomaniac: almost just as good as a tracking number
(2013.06.07 - 235:05) Tchay: I spoke with someone from DC working for USPS and they confirmed that they would never be able to find the package
(2013.06.07 - 235:28) megalomaniac: not on their end...
(2013.06.07 - 235:40) megalomaniac: once it leaves the US its not their problem
(2013.06.07 - 235:59) Tchay: thats not true.
(2013.06.07 - 236:03) Tchay: its still their problem
(2013.06.07 - 236:07) megalomaniac: they only get updates from the rest of the world mailing systems to update their site
(2013.06.07 - 236:10) Tchay: hence why they refunded me
(2013.06.07 - 236:23) megalomaniac: they refunded because it was insured
(2013.06.07 - 236:28) megalomaniac: else it was not their problem
(2013.06.07 - 2361) Tchay: granted i only got a portion of the total declared value due to limits on the value they can refund for countries like greece
(2013.06.07 - 236:50) megalomaniac: thats good to know
(2013.06.07 - 237:12) megalomaniac: i never imagined there was limits because of country destination
(2013.06.07 - 237:19) Tchay: all of this being the reason why I am now using Fedex

(2013.06.07 - 23:41:50) megalomaniac: so i gave him the ticket number,....bam...product arrived

(2013.06.07 - 23:453) megalomaniac: i bet it wouldnt stop people from wanting to my stuff
(2013.06.07 - 23:46:48) Tchay: perhaps not
(2013.06.07 - 23:46:58) Tchay: but a bad reputation would certainly catch up with you
(2013.06.07 - 23:47:24) megalomaniac: you assuming a bad reputation by chance if something got lost
(2013.06.07 - 23:47:55) megalomaniac: like i said...over 100 shipments and nothing lost yet
(2013.06.07 - 23:47:56) Tchay: well, if you ship to 3rd world countries a lot....then yes things will get lost
(2013.06.07 - 23:482) megalomaniac: shipped to brazil greece dubai many times
(2013.06.07 - 23:495) Tchay: greece is definitely a bad place to ship to
(2013.06.07 - 23:49:55) Tchay: they have issues with packages getting stolen
(2013.06.07 - 23:50:13) Tchay: and the postal workers have been known to be unreliable over there
(2013.06.07 - 23:514) megalomaniac: that sucks
(2013.06.07 - 23:53:59) Tchay: do you ever do portable commissions? or anything expensive?
(2013.06.07 - 23:542) megalomaniac: portable commissions no, anything expensive, yes
(2013.06.07 - 23:55:17) megalomaniac: ive shipped 600k$ pieces of equipment on a regular bases with nothing but a tracking number
(2013.06.07 - 23:56:50) Tchay: well i hope you packaged them in something
(2013.06.07 - 23:56:52) Tchay:
(2013.06.07 - 23:57:09) megalomaniac: just a box...not even sealed...
(2013.06.07 - 23:57:25) megalomaniac: dropped the box off on the counter with a label....
(2013.06.07 - 23:57:43) megalomaniac: let them seal it and take it from there

 

[ttsgeb]

Palmer is such a snail fart.


I honestly don't think that this shows anything about mega's policies that anyone that reads wasn't already aware of.

At most, this should be a warning to read the TOS before you agree to them. It says nothing about mega other than that he covers his ass.

Big companies have different policies because they have budget for shrink. Small companies tend to have "You break it, you buy it" rules. This is effectively the same thing.

Portables are a different market, being mostly one off commissions, the creator is generally expected to take more responsibility for making sure his work arrives safely.
Not every business should be held to the same standards though. Doing that is why we have ridiculous flax like braille on drive up ATMs.

 

[Noah]

I still think the sellers should take responsibility for an item that gets lost, not just give the buyer a tracking number. Even if it's insured the seller is going to be the one who dealt with all of the forums, etc. and most of them will probably have their name and signature on them. I personally would never buy from someone with policies like Mega as for some people $50 is a lot.

Mega, you even said "my $50 product gets lost in the mail is not an much of a blow compared to a portable at $1000" and while this is true, some people have to work hard to get money. If they were to work for a whole month and get $50 and then go buy something from you and it gets lost, what would you do? Kick back and say,"Oh, read my Terms and Conditions. Your responsibility." Not only would that be a dick move, but the buyer could easily open a dispute with PayPal (if they used it) and then you would be screwed. You'd be out a $50 item and the $50 they sent you since PayPal always tends to side with the buyer. I agree 100% with Tchay on this, lost items should be the seller's responsibility.

 

[ttsgeb]

How is being out a $50 item and $50 any different than being out a $50 item and $50?
If they file a paypal dispute, he can show paypal the TOS and the tracking number. When you agree to a TOS, you agree to a TOS.

 

[Ashen]

I'm gonna go over this one more time. Noah and Tchay and anyone else whom may agree upon it being the sellers responsibility to eat the cost/be responsible in the end if something happens during shipping. THIS IS YOUR OPINION. Not law. This is just like anything else that YOU may not agree with. If you don't agree with it, just don't do it or participate in it.

Just because personally I don't think abortion is right and should be illegal. That doesn't make it so.

Secondly, having the full chatlog shows that when there was a shipping issue the seller in question TOOK CARE OF THE SITUATION BY HELPING THE BUYER. He didn't just say "oh well, to *Can'tSayThisOnTV*ing bad". He helped resolve the situation as best he could by providing the buyer with the information he needed, and the buyer GOT HIS PACKAGE.

The bottom line is the seller in question has sent out 100's of packages to people on various forums and HE HAS NOT RECEIVED ONE BIT OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK as far as I'm aware. The fact is if there was absolutely any investigation by the original person who was concerned about the sellers policy's, or before this thread was created it would have been found that there should be little concern at all from buying from the seller in question other than his policy's are meant to protect him in the end if something flaxty did happen.

None of these things were done though, and opinions were based totally on incomplete information. Leading to this flaxty mess.

Kickback, I applaud you for manning up and admitting this flax was not right. Everyone makes mistakes, flax happens. No harm done IMO.
Still waiting on the other one.

 

[grossaffe]

Secondly, having the full chatlog shows that when there was a shipping issue the seller in question TOOK CARE OF THE SITUATION BY HELPING THE BUYER. He didn't just say "oh well, to gingivitus-inviting bad". He helped resolve the situation as best he could by providing the buyer with the information he needed, and the buyer GOT HIS PACKAGE.

The bottom line is the seller in question has sent out 100's of packages to people on various forums and HE HAS NOT RECEIVED ONE BIT OF NEGATIVE FEEDBACK as far as I'm aware. The fact is if there was absolutely any investigation by the original person who was concerned about the sellers policy's, or before this thread was created it would have been found that there should be little concern at all from buying from the seller in question other than his policy's are meant to protect him in the end if something flax did happen.

None of these things were done though, and opinions were based totally on incomplete information. Leading to this flax mess.

That information is available from the original screen shots.

Tchay brought something he found questionable to the cave to be reviewed, and I can't find any problem with that. He did not go rogue and take matters into his own hands, but rather gave us his concerns in private so we could further review the issue. That it went public is regrettable.

 

[Noah]

Secondly, having the full chatlog shows that when there was a shipping issue the seller in question TOOK CARE OF THE SITUATION BY HELPING THE BUYER. He didn't just say "oh well, to *Can'tSayThisOnTV*ing bad". He helped resolve the situation as best he could by providing the buyer with the information he needed, and the buyer GOT HIS PACKAGE.

True, but all he did was give the buyer his tracking/customs number. Look at all the time and trouble Tchay went through to get the Envision mess sorted out. While all of that may not be necessary for $50, as I said before, $50 is a lot to some people.

(20:44:55) Tchay: If you have the policy of "buyer assumes all responsibility" when it comes to portable commissions, I think that is unfair to the buyer
(20:45:13) Tchay: and again, it goes against the way sites like ebay and paypal are run
(20:45:25) Tchay: but if you don't do portable commissions, then nevermind
(20:453) megalomaniac: i bet it wouldnt stop people from wanting to my stuff

Not sure what mega was talking about here, but I'm going to assume he was saying if he did portable commissions it wouldn't stop people from buying them. Uh, yes it would. You even said you live in a third world county and things get lost there. If you took commissions for portables and had this policy, I bet not one single person would want one from you. Why? Because you are selling them something worth $1000, and you are saying that if it gets lost in the mail it is their responsibility to get it or get the money for it. If someone is going to spend $1000 on a product, they are going to want to make sure they have it in their hands or at least get the money back if something were to happen to it.

Now just so everyone knows, this is MY opinion, what I believe in. Mega, I think it's great that you have so many people who have trusted you with the policies you have in place, and I'm sorry if I offended you in any way with the things I have said. I wish you good luck with future sales and hope you don't have any inconveniences that would put your reputation in a bad place, because you seem like a trustworthy guy. However, I will not be buying from you or anyone else with policies similar to yours because of the reasons I have stated in this thread. Then again, it's just my opinion, so everyone else is free to think and believe what they want.

 

[Tchay]

@Ashen, my posting in the cave WAS investigation. I don't know why you feel like it was anything but. And when exactly did I say my opinion was fact? I don't remember saying that anywhere, anytime. Of course it was my opinion. And of course people feel differently. But there are also people who felt my concerns were justifiable. In any case, I posted in the cave to "investigate" the matter.

I admit that this "flax was not right" as you put it. But I don't really understand what I've done that requires an apology regarding my post in the cave or how I acted afterwards. And apologizing for presenting a personal concern to my fellow staff would imply that the modretro staff shouldn't be presenting concerns to one another, which of course would go against one of the main purposes of having staff in the first place.

My posting in the cave WAS me researching and looking into the matter of Megalomaniac's shipping policy. What better way to find out about a persons reputation than to ask fellow staff members of Modretro who might know Megalomaniac? Other moderators would have posted their input/opinions and most likely have said that I was either overreacting or that it was not a big deal due to such and such and previous shipping reputation on Megalomaniac's part. But generally speaking, if any Modretro staff members find something offensive/concerning, we don't hesitate to post it in our private forum for review. I personally think it is a good form of communication and if the staff was unsure about Megalomaniac, I, or another staff member, would have looked into it and done proper research outside of the cave before coming to any conclusion or public action.

So you are waiting for me to "man up." Again, I don't really understand what you expect me to do at this point? I apologized to Megalomaniac for the way things went down, but that apology clearly was misinterpreted. I already spoke with Kickback and he does not feel like I was placing the blame on him, and I will say right now that that was not at all my intention at all. I was honestly trying to make a bad situation a little better by apologizing to Megalomaniac. Although it appears my message to Megalomaniac might have made the situation worse, unfortunately.

The full logs are now available, and no harm appears to have been done. People are developing their own opinions about the FULL chat logs now, which is fair in my opinion. So I feel like it is a non-issue at this point.

 

[ShockSlayer]

What better way to find out about a persons reputation than to ask fellow staff members of Modretro who might know Megalomaniac?

Giant compendium of buyer/seller reputation found here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11

On the way to that thread you also would've passed by:
"Note: ModRetro cannot be held responsible for, nor do we monitor or moderate, any transactions within or outside of the site, so be safe!"

Regardless, checking only that thread, I found two international peeps reporting no problems and commending him.

And, I'm pretty sure nobody on staff has ever done business with him, though, and none of them are gamecube scene people so they wouldn't know him from there either, so in actuality the staff would've been one of the worst groups of people to go to.

SS

 

[Tchay]

SS....

This is not about monitoring transactions.

I presented the logs to the staff to get their opinion on the logs themselves.

This is all becoming very redundant.

 

[ShockSlayer]

The intention of your cave post was to tell staff to keep an eye on megalomaniac. That's monitoring.

Tchay, people are asking for apologies for a reason. It is not because they are mad at KB for posting something from the cave. They are clearly mad about something else.

"So you are waiting for me to "man up." Again, I don't really understand what you expect me to do at this point? I apologized to Megalomaniac for the way things went down, but that apology clearly was misinterpreted."

This is not what people are calling for. We do not need you to apologize for Kickback. Kickback has already apologized.

SS

 

[Ashen]

Ugh, alright, I'm gonna type this flax out on my phone. Please know how much I hate that.

Tchay, you're a cool bro. Know that I'm not attacking you please. But I think that this was handled all wrong. If you would have taken the time to begin with to look around a bit, at the thread that was linked to you in the chatlog/screenshots, or taken the time to review the buyer/seller feedback thread here OR on GC forever (of which I know you're a member), you would have realized this was a non issue to begin with, and that any concerns you had were unwarranted. There are sale threads from Mega that are 20+ pages long, without a single negative comment. Also, upon inspection its instantly clear that Mega is an organized, experienced seller. Clearly not someone here to just rip people off. No, i think your "concern" stems from a bad experience you had personally and you jumped the gun because you personally dont agree with Mega's stated policys. Pretty much, the "cave thread" should've never existed. It did though, and flax got blown up. Easy thing to happen, and no one said that flax doesn't happen. Its ok to say "flax, i *Can'tSayThisOnTV*ed up and jumped the gun man, even though I dont agree with your pilicies, this flax shoulda never happened to begin with. Sorry bro."

Thats my take. The end.

 

[Tchay]

You're right. I *Can'tSayThisOnTV*ed up and jumped the gun. Everyone, I apologize for not researching Megalomaniac's policies further, prior to posting in the Cave. Megalomaniac, I apologize. In the future I will be more careful when I present issues to the staff.