Rumble pack... Without batteries?

Shawn7656

Member
I'd like to mod my 3rd party rumble pack so I don't have to use batteries. I remember there being a way to solder the battery wires somewhere else, but I can't really remember (I watched someone do it when I was 8 or 9). As the brand-name sticker was peeled off before it was in my possession I've no idea who made it. However, here are some pics of its innards so you guys can have an easier time helping me.

This is the whole thing
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29446716/DSC00943.jpg

These are the wires to the batteries
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29446716/DSC00944.jpg

This is the chip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29446716/DSC00945.jpg

And this is the bottom of the chip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29446716/DSC00946.jpg

I'm okay with you editing these pics for the use of showing me where and what to do. If you need more or closer pictures I can arrange for that (I'm a photographer :cool: )

Thank you in advance!
 
I think the Rumble Pak takes 3.3v in somewhere, you might be able to run the motor (rumbly bit) off of that, depending on how much it draws on a startup. You'll need to figure out what pin(s) is/are power on that connector though, and for that I'll need some clearer pictures of the traces under the motor wires, as well as the entire underside (the side with the big black PAL chip). I don't know how good you are at desoldering, but also helpful would be a pic of that underside without the chip.
 
Which pin is 15? Do you have a pinout for the rumble pak, or did you just spit out the first thing that came up on Google?
 
pinout, numbered according to the silkscreen markings
on the controller's PCB:

Pin Name Note
-----------------------
1 Ground
2 A14 (1)
3 A12
4 A7
5 A6
6 A5
7 A4
8 A3
9 A2
10 A1
11 A0
12 D0
13 D1
14 Detect (2)
15 3.3v
16 D2

17 Ground
18 Unknown 1 (3)
19 A15
20 /WE
21 A13
22 A8
23 A9
24 A11
25 /OE
26 A10
27 D7
28 D6
29 D5
30 D4
31 3.3v
32 D3

That is from here, and I found that here.
 
Aux said:
I think the Rumble Pak takes 3.3v in somewhere, you might be able to run the motor (rumbly bit) off of that, depending on how much it draws on a startup. You'll need to figure out what pin(s) is/are power on that connector though, and for that I'll need some clearer pictures of the traces under the motor wires, as well as the entire underside (the side with the big black PAL chip). I don't know how good you are at desoldering, but also helpful would be a pic of that underside without the chip.
I'll be honest and say that I've never actually soldered anything before haha. I know some people who can do it for me though (or I can learn).

Anyways, here are some pics (sorry the chip is still on). Maybe this will verify what Prog is saying.
If I'm still not taking the pictures you want I'm sorry, I'm more of a software guy, not hardware ;)
The white motor wire is labeled positive.
These pictures are full size now, as opposed to half size last time to conserve time with uploads, hopefully you'll be able to pick more detail out if needed.

([WARNING: Pics are 3.5-5 megs EACH])
Motor and wires
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29446716/Rumble/DSC00949.jpg
Same but with more view of the chip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29446716/Rumble/DSC00950.jpg
The underside of the chip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29446716/Rumble/DSC00953.jpg
A close-up of where the wires connect to the chip
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/29446716/Rumble/DSC00954.jpg
 
Based on some tracing, I think the following will work for you. Desolder the yellow and gray lines from the battery connector, and solder them to the underside of the pins on the PAL chip as demonstrated below.

0kUaZ.jpg


This will give your motor circuit 3.3V instead of 3V, but it shouldn't matter too much. It will just rumble very slightly harder, I think. (Note: I am unsure about that transistor, the 3.3/3.0V may actually matter. If this doesn't work, let us know, and we'll look at stepping that 3.3 down to 3.0 straight.) You will probably also end up with some noise on your 3.3v power in your controller/console which may cause your console to lock up or shut off, I don't know. I certainly wouldn't connect more than two of these powered rumble paks to a single console. You may want to pop an electrolytic capacitor (680uF, maybe?) in between the yellow wire and the PAL pin if you find your console misbehaving, just to filter.

NOTE: This is based on the assumption that yellow is positive from the battery, and gray is negative. This would make sense, but you should totally double-check.
 
All that I'm worried about is that it might eat the conroller's power.
 
Aux said:
ProgMetalMan said:
All that I'm worried about is that it might eat the conroller's power.

That's not how... not how electronics work.

Well yes and no, kinda.

The controller wire will only allow so much current to flow before it will burn up. So theoretically running a rumble pak off the controller's power could mess thing up. Probally won't but it "could"
 
Well I still haven't gotten to try it out. I just got done moving and I'm still unpacking and organizing everything. I'll come back on here and let you guys know how it all works out when I finally get around to it though
 
hailrazer said:
Aux said:
ProgMetalMan said:
All that I'm worried about is that it might eat the conroller's power.

That's not how... not how electronics work.

Well yes and no, kinda.

The controller wire will only allow so much current to flow before it will burn up. So theoretically running a rumble pak off the controller's power could mess thing up. Probally won't but it "could"

That wire isn't close to being thin enough for it to be a concern.

However, have we verified that the 3.3V going to the controller ports aren't limited by any other factors? It's unlikely, but worth checking.

The best way to find out if this will work is to just try it.
 
Mr. Hooker said:
there was some 3rd party rumble packs made that ran from the system power.

From Wikipedia: Rumble Pak
"Several thirdparty versions of the Rumble Pak, such as the Tremor Pak, followed. Some draw power from the controller instead of batteries, but the lower power makes them less effective."
From Wikipedia: Tremor Pak
"some models used the N64 console itself as a power source, eliminating the need for batteries (though the vibrations were weakened as a side effect)"

It can be done, just not as powerful. might need to add a resistor inline with the motor to limit the power drawl from the controller.
 
Solution, The Tim Way:

1: Wire power from the rumble pack directly to the controller's power source.
2: Crack open your N64, and fortify the controllers power source, adding in your own excessively powerful power supply just for the controllers.
3: Give me an internet hug shortly before something happens to make all of it break.

On any other N64's (because people TOTALLY still go over to their friends house, with their own controllers, to play N64 together) you will just have a weaker rumble.

Disclaimer: All hugs are final, no refunds, returns, or exchanges will be offered after the initial hug occurrence.
 
First, just try it wired directly to the 3.3... I do not see why the 3.3 would be "weaker" than the ~3V provided from the batteries it would normally take... The 3.3V line on the N64 PSU is already pretty powerful, at least 1A. The N64 doesn't use all of that, ever, and the motor certainly won't either. Adding a more powerful power supply isn't going to really change anything, unless you up the voltage, which would be problematic on its own.

just try it
 
the main reason it is weaker. you lose some power with the small gage wire that's 5 feet long going from the controller to the n64 . maybe upgrade the controller cable/wire and it might be the same as 2 AA's. otherwise, it's simply not as strong.
 
Mr. Hooker said:
the main reason it is weaker. you lose some power with the small gage wire that's 5 feet long going from the controller to the n64 . maybe upgrade the controller cable/wire and it might be the same as 2 AA's. otherwise, it's simply not as strong.

Welcome to ModRetro, where the facts are made up and the posts don't matter!

That's not the reason. If you were "losing power" from the smaller, high gauge wire, it would be heating up. You'd know. The power draw of the controller, the rumble pack, or all of them together, is not significant enough for this to be the cause.
 
Bibin said:
Mr. Hooker said:
the main reason it is weaker. you lose some power with the small gage wire that's 5 feet long going from the controller to the n64 . maybe upgrade the controller cable/wire and it might be the same as 2 AA's. otherwise, it's simply not as strong.

Welcome to ModRetro, where the facts are made up and the posts don't matter!

That's not the reason. If you were "losing power" from the smaller, high gauge wire, it would be heating up. You'd know. The power draw of the controller, the rumble pack, or all of them together, is not significant enough for this to be the cause.
I love that show.

How many other wired controllers have batteries to power their rumble motor(s)? Oh, that's right, none (that I know of). I don't know why Nintendo decided the N64 rumble needed batteries, but I know that my wired 360 controller doesn't have a problem pulling power for its two rumble motors through its 10' cord with teeny-tiny wires. At the very least, its not the wire's fault.
 
Bibin said:
Welcome to ModRetro, where the facts are made up and the posts don't matter!
That's not the reason. If you were "losing power" from the smaller, high gauge wire, it would be heating up. You'd know. The power draw of the controller, the rumble pack, or all of them together, is not significant enough for this to be the cause.
if I was to use a lamp or motor that has a higher power requirement then what is being supplied would be your example. that's not the case here. the rumbler motor can run on 2v, just not as efficiently and reactive as the full 3v+, so there would be no heating up, its running on low voltage instead of undervolting or trying to draw power. the more power you give it the faster it go's, it's not going to stop working or burn up if its not running at full power.

vskid3 said:
How many other wired controllers have batteries to power their rumble motor(s)? Oh, that's right, none (that I know of). I don't know why Nintendo decided the N64 rumble needed batteries, but I know that my wired 360 controller doesn't have a problem pulling power for its two rumble motors through its 10' cord with teeny-tiny wires. At the very least, its not the wire's fault.

your trying to compare a 3 volt controller to every 5+ volt controller made since the n64, and the x box has thicker +/- voltage wire's to make up for it's length, take one apart and look for yourself. and the n64 only has 3 wire's going to the controller, the game cube, x box, play station controller's with built in rumbler's are all 5v+. and most have a dedicated rumbler power line. the n64 and controller was designed before the rumble pack, so they didn't take the power need's in mind. some of you are confusing fact's like 1. there are 3rd party rumble packs for the n64 that don't need battery's, but they are weaker and for a reason. 2. the 3v from 2 AA battery's are dedicated to the rumbler pac, where the 3 volt line is shared and don't have the same amount of power at the controller as it doe's the system because it loses some of it's power over the length of the cord with it's thin +/- line's (check for yourself, and test more then just voltage) to your own untested speculation 1, people say it's 3v, so it has to work the same as 2 battery's, 2, that the 3v line of a n64 should be able to do what every other systems controller's 5v requirement was meant for just because they have rumblers built in.

and when someone present's you with the fact's (or opinion) don't assume they have to be wrong just because there new here, when you have nothing proving your right, and the fact's you present are full of hole's, you only compromise any since of reliability someone might of had in your opinion's.

I haven't gone out of my way to attack, put down, or say it will not work to anyone, just sharing useable info and defending myself, I'll need to be proven wrong before I admit I'm wrong. at the same time I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong.

"Rumble pack... Without batteries?" it can be done. in a n64? probably not going to be as strong without battery's, or upping the voltage. but it can be done.
 
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